Heres something you probably dont know: after clearing the cars computer you will need to drive for about 50 to 100 miles. Lambda sensors have an internal heater, so check the resistance of the heater it will usually be quite low. There is no different part number for bank1 and bank2. So you would be able to put the post cat into the pre cat and it would work just like the factory o2 sensor besides the shorter or longer wires, they do the same thing basically, right? A typical Zirconia lambda sensor has four wires. The tools used in this guided test may have been superseded and the products above are our latest versions used to diagnose the fault documented in this case study. Our support forum where 16,000+ users (including Pico staff) discuss all things PicoScope Automotive. A vehicle equipped with a lambda sensor is said to have 'closed loop', which means that after the fuel has been burnt during the combustion process, the sensor analyzes the resultant emissions and readjusts the engine's fuelling accordingly. Use of the Forum is subject to the Terms and Conditions. Reading the trouble codes will tell you exactly which sensor is in need of replacing either the upstream (top) or downstream (bottom) sensor and on what bank (side) of the engine. Click the Add comment button to leave your feedback. Do universal sensors work, well yes. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo, https://turbobricks.com/resources/O2sensors.pdf, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. functioning wise) Also, where can I buy a cheaper O2 sensor? The downstream oxygen sensor(s) are located in the exhaust pipe, behind the catalytic converter. The ECU wont be able to adjust fuel trims properly. On Bank 2 means it is at the engine side with cylinders 2, 4, 6, 8, etc. London Road, Moreton-in-Marsh The Titania Oxygen sensor differs from the Zirconia sensor in that it is incapable of producing its own output voltage and is therefore reliant on a 5-volt supply from the vehicle's ECM. - If a post-cat sensor was modified so it could be installed as a pre-cat sensor, would it work? These cookies track visitors across websites and collect information to provide customized ads. Wow that is a crazy amount to pay for oxygen sensors to be changed at the dealer! I then tried a front universal and all was well. Once the sensor is in place, plug in the electronic connector. What to look out for in a failing O2 sensor . Narrowband = typical lambda/oxygen sensor. Whilst this may sound like a fairly modest task, the O2 sensor is actually one of the most important sensors on any vehicle, responsible for keeping the right balance between air and fuel for optimal emissions. I think the two pre-cats and the driver's side post-cat are the same on the 98-02 fbodies. Pre- and poscat sensors have different wire length and pre-cat is male, post cat is female connectors. It is always going to be located after the catalytic converter. Does it matter which 02 sensor goes where? All three O2 sensors are intechangeable. Local autozone had it in stock less than $100. Advertisement cookies are used to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns. Content on spyderchat.com is generated by its users. Their bodies are identical, so the threads. This allowed air in, diluting the stream and telling the ECU there was more oxygen in the stream than there should have been. Now reconnect the diagnostic tool and delete any related fault codes. I know there wasnt a difference on my 02 SS. Be careful not to put excessive amounts of anti-seize onto the threads as this could contaminate the sensing area. JavaScript is disabled. On the other side of the nernst cell, oxygen from the air outside the exhaust travels down the O2 sensor and makes contact. 2012 BMW 328i (F30) 2.0L N20 - PRE / POST CAT O2 OXYGEN LAMBDA PROBE SENSOR SET . You may have widebands tbh so no upstream and down stream would be different. This help topic is subject to changes without notification. The sensor is inoperative below 300 C. The information within is carefully checked and considered to be correct. Picture Information. with 384 lbs of torque. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo, http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=ET37&mospid=47720&btnr=11_2181&hg=11&fg=50&hl=3, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21E5_u6dz0s, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Oxygen molecules from the exhaust gas pass through tiny slots or holes in the sensors steel shell to reach the sensing element, or nernst cell. If the exhaust gas mixture is too lean, then a signal is sent to increase the amount of fuel used in the engine. ,t.c.bypass,descreened m.a.f. Check the condition of the probe element protective tube for signs of damage and contamination. Necessary cookies are absolutely essential for the website to function properly. Upstream is before the Cat and downstream is after the cat. 27 sold . The oxygen sensor, otherwise known as the O2 sensor, does what its name suggests it measures the amount of oxygen in the exhaust. hi guys i got old 02 sensor out a Little tight getting new one in. Downstream means towards where the flow ends, at the opposite end of the waterway from the source. Use an oscilloscope to check the signal at both idle and approx. We use cookies to optimize our website and our service. for diagnostic use. 2nd wire: White heater (-) These can all affect the oxygen sensors response characteristics, resulting in an extended response time or a shift in the sensor voltage curve and in the long run reduced sensor performance. The Waveform Library is a global database of waveforms uploaded by PicoScope users. Second difference: (and most important) There is a reason why the Upstream O2 sensor is about 2-3x more expensive than the downstream sensor. You will see that, The pre catalytic converter sensor signal. Vehicle manufacturers identify bank1 vs. bank2 and front / rear vs. pre / post positions somewhat differently, so care should be taken to make sure youve identified the right (problem) sensor. $89.05 . It's been a while since I've checked into thisso hopefully, someone can back me up. How do I know if its my upstream or downstream O2 sensor? When the o2 sensors are working properly, then the upstream and downstream o2 sensors should have different readings. The "pre-cat sensor" regulates fuel supply, while the downstream sensor measures the efficiency of the catalytic converter. I have two new original postcat sensors. So essentially bmw did a change to the DME which came with different sensors, the wide-band I mentioned, in 2003. Once unscrewed, discard the old sensor and replace with the new unit. It lets you see what you previously had to guess was happening. It is also exposed to extremely high temperatures, and like any component can wear over time. Should I replace both oxygen sensors at the same time? Rear O2's monitor catalytic converter performance they do not determine fueling with the exception of COT (Cat Over Temperature) which will signal the ECM to dump fuel into the cylinders to cool the cats. Available for Windows, Mac, and Linux, the next evolution of our diagnostic scope software is now available. Bank 2 Sensor 1 means Upstream Left/Front; Bank 1 Sensor 2 means Downstream Right/Rear; Bank 2 Sensor 2 means Downstream Left/Front. I was very impressed as to the speed and ease of ordering. no difference in them at all, fronts tell the computer how to control vehicle air and fuel and the rears are for cooling the cats when they get too hot. This is due to the fact that bank 2 is representative of an engines #2 cylinder, while sensor 2 serves as a downstream designation. settings. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. sledhead. There is no difference between the pre and post O2 sensors. A forum community dedicated to BMW E46, E90, and F30 owners and enthusiasts. Carolina Stone is the founder and lead contributor of carolinasbmwmoa.org, a popular blog dedicated to all things about BMWs. do i have to lower exhaust pipe ? In 2018, she decided to combine her passion for BMWs by creating a blog specifically for BMW enthusiasts in the region. OEM sensors uncut/repaired/altered give a true read of the gases both per/post catalyst. 06-29-2005 08:28 PM. The sensors have a varying number of electrical connections, up to a maximum of four wires. Depending on the engine design, vehicles can have multiple oxygen sensors, sometimes on both sides of the engine. The product is excellent. These Remove passenger side front Use the factory wire retainers i She is a proud owner of a BMW M3 and has been an active member of the BMW Motorcycle Owners of America (BMW MOA) for many years. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. Before giving out ANY information regarding cars, or any other items for sale, please satisfy yourself that any potential purchaser is bona fide. This website uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website. This enables the sensor to be located further away from the heat source at the manifold to a 'cleaner' location. A vehicles (bank 2, sensor 2) O2 sensor will be located behind or downstream of the catalytic converter on the bank which corresponds to the engines second cylinder. The technical storage or access is strictly necessary for the legitimate purpose of enabling the use of a specific service explicitly requested by the subscriber or user, or for the sole purpose of carrying out the transmission of a communication over an electronic communications network. Both Titania and Zirconia sensors, when working correctly, switch approximately once per second (1 Hz) and will both only start to switch once the normal operating temperature has been achieved. and 399 r.w.h.p. Too much fuel produces hydrocarbons and carbon monoxide. Our garage has checked leaks and wiring and this is what they have done. The pre-cat sensor regulates fuel supply, while the downstream sensor measures the efficiency of the catalytic converter. Wide band O2 sensors have an additional O2 pumping cell to regulate the amount of oxygen present in the sensing element. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. The catalytic converter maintains the stoichiometric air-fuel ratio of 14.7:1. Apply a clean and reusable pulse oximeter sensor to either foot. P2096/2098 Oxygen sensor ageing delay time - above limit value, We have had 2096 code on our Boxster 986 04. Performance cookies are used to understand and analyze the key performance indexes of the website which helps in delivering a better user experience for the visitors. We know that our PicoScope users are clever and creative and wed love to receive your ideas for improvement on this test. The support I have received from Pico over the years has been superb. 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This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. Tally how many spark plug wires are present. Functional cookies help to perform certain functionalities like sharing the content of the website on social media platforms, collect feedbacks, and other third-party features. Bank 2 Sensor 2 is the second sensor on the engine's exhaust pipe, usually behind the catalytic converter. Thanks KrisL, I missed that part, mine is 3/03 so I need to buy the 5 wired, wow there's big price difference between 4 wired and 5 wired sensors. The difference between the two is about $1,000.. I cant help with the torque readings (or the tech builtin above but I'll keep going) but its easy to forgot that the O2 sensor is only reporting what it's seeing and the default reaction of replacing the O2 sensor is literally just shooting the messenger. The service engine soon lamp was on on my 03 325I(68k miles), took it to the dealer, they diagnosed and told me that one of the oxygen sensor is faulty and gave an estimate of $600 to replace one sensor. When you change the cat you nearly always have to put new sensors in as they will have rusted in. Other uncategorized cookies are those that are being analyzed and have not been classified into a category as yet. When responding to advertisements please ensure that you satisfy yourself of any applicable call charges on numbers not prefixed by usual "landline" STD Codes. After 10 or 12 years, your oxygen sensors usually have to be replaced, that is normal, and you should replace both of them for better gas mileage performance of the car. Your email address will not be published. Members are advised to consult qualified specialists for information, advice and assistance on matters connected with their cars at all times. Poor fuel economy: a faulty oxygen sensor will upset the air to fuel mixture resulting in increased fuel usage. o2 sensors where is bank 2 sensor 1. bjones. If both O2 sensors and catalyst was replaced then you may have an exhaust leak at the manifold or pipes. One of the main reasons not to cut/splice wires is changing the way electrons flow back to the DME. Because of this, youll want to know what it does, why it fails and importantly how to replace it when it does. Each vehicle may be different and require unique test However I'll defer to your knowledge with working at Bosch. How do I know which oxygen sensor to replace? Since the oxygen sensor is in the exhaust stream, it can become contaminated. Other than the connector, is there a difference? 2012 AUDI A6 (C7) 2.0L CAEB - PRE / POST CAT O2 OXYGEN LAMBDA PROBE SENSOR SET-2 . An ECM will only control the fuelling in 'closed loop' when the appropriate conditions allow, which is normally during idle, light load and cruise operations. The pre-cat sensor regulates fuel supply, while the downstream sensor measures the efficiency of the catalytic converter. New . The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada, spyderchat.com is an independent Toyota enthusiast website owned and operated by VerticalScope Inc. Anyone else wonder if the OP was able to do any modifications (lights, drop, wheels, interior trim, grilles) but can't figure out how to swap out the 02 sensors? However they often can skew the reading back to the DME. The reference voltage is altered according to the engine's air fuel ratio, with a lean mixture returning as little as 0.4 volt and a rich mixture producing in the region of 4.0 volts. Could I buy universal one, if not why? AU $309.99 + AU $45.00 postage . Downstream Sensor is in the Exhaust Pipe Post-Cat. Fantastic products and support with unbelievable performance for the money. Hi my VIN is 98 Z4U 64 1458, so would this need the upgrade as I seem to be suffering from this issue? Delphi Technologies is a brand of BorgWarner Inc. Diesel Fuel Injection - Car and Light Commercial Vehicle, Diesel Fuel Injection - Heavy Duty and Off-Highway, DS Software - Car/Light Commercial Vehicle, https://www.linkedin.com/showcase/delphi-technologies-aftermarket/, https://www.youtube.com/DelphiTechnologies. This also happens during initial warm-up. 2001 camaro z28 ss vert with factory slp upgrades, Hooker long tubes, 3"y-pipe to a 4" muffler, ,airlid,s.s.r.a. Analytical cookies are used to understand how visitors interact with the website. Training resources and demonstrations on PicoScope and the Automotive Diagnostics Kit. It lets you see what you previously had to guess was happening. Hover to zoom. A forum community dedicated to BMW owners and enthusiasts. Minimize the help page. Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site! Last one . I would start looking for a air leak in the intake boot or intake runner valve. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Accolades for the preferred diagnostic tool for service centers and vehicle manufacturers. Titania is also used in the manufacture of another type of lambda sensor that offers a faster switching time than the more common Zirconia sensor. It is what tells your cars ECU when the AFR goes rich, stoic, or lean. You must use the correct ones, whether oem with the correct length cable and plug, or the correct "universal" equivalent, that will require you to measure and splice your old plug onto it. Free shipping . I think the passenger side one is a different part number because of longer wires. However, bank 1 has two sensors, of which sensor 1 is located near the engine before the catalytic converter, an upstream sensor called pre-CAT, and sensor 2 is located after the catalytic converter called post CAT, a downstream sensor. are the pre cat and post cat 02 sensors the same? Upstream Sensor is in the Exhaust Manifold Pre-Cat. That's where my misconfusion came from. The technical storage or access that is used exclusively for anonymous statistical purposes. If necessary, refer to the vehicle manufacturers data to find the correct value to compare against. When the vehicle accelerates, the ECM allows overfuelling and ignores the lambda signals. The POST-cat O2 sensors are the only ones effected. This information is an example of our investigations and findings and is not a definitive procedure. There IS a difference, When I did my header install we lost a rear 02 but we had an extra front for some reason, so i bought a new front, and plugged the rear with the extra 02long story short, checkers system is F'd up and gave me a REAR 02 for my frontso the next week when i bought a rear 02 for my actual rear it was the same Part numberi drove around with that one in the front for about a month till it started surging bad and throwing codesthrew that extra front 02 in the front and waalano issues no codes, been months nowso there IS a difference. This is a TSB regarding the P2096 problem. Got mine off amazon for around $52 shipped each (pre cats): I replaced both pre-cat O2 sensors on my 2003 330i for $250, and 30 minutes of my time including the $12 I paid for the 22mm O2 sensor slotted socket made by Lisle. Finally, run the ignition and confirm that the check engine light is extinguished, then perform a road test. Download manuals, brochures, posters, and training materials. The pre-cat sensor is fitted into the exhaust pipe before the catalytic converter, and cars using the new EOBD2 also have a post-cat lambda sensor. As I understand it, the pre cat voltages should swing between around 0.2v - 0.8v per second (mine appear to do that just fine) and the post cat . Contact information for direct sales and support queries, plus our network of global distributors. While , And despite their simplicity, a cold air intake actually provides a decent horsepower boost for a small investment. tuned with EFI Live. Copyright 2022 Machine Matrix L.L.C. The catalytic converter is where you will find the sensors. 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We have good news! please help all stuff is breaking this wknd !! The o2 (oxygen) sensor. A lambda sensor is also referred to as an Oxygen or O2 sensor, or a Heated Exhaust Gas Oxygen (HEGO) sensor, and plays a very important role in control of exhaust emissions on a catalytic-equipped vehicle. HPE Megadeath cam, UDP, SLP LT Headers, Corsa Catback, Textralia clutch kit, ACPT CF driveshaft, Billet shifter, SAP Spoiler, The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo, http://sincitygoats.com/gallery/v/aquariussuperman/, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Even though both O2 sensors are four wire, heated O2 sensors, there are definitely differences that the Motronic can detect. Assistance on matters connected with their cars at all times there a difference if its my upstream downstream... You may have an internal heater, so check the condition of the waterway the! Downstream O2 sensors have different wire length and pre-cat is male, post cat O2 oxygen PROBE... Visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns and reusable pulse oximeter sensor replace... Back to the DME investigations and findings and is not a definitive procedure before proceeding side one is global... It is what tells your cars ECU when the vehicle accelerates, the next evolution of our scope... Threads as this could contaminate the sensing area 1 sensor 2 means it is always going to located. On both sides of the waterway from the site rusted in to understand how visitors interact with the to! I mentioned, in 2003 once the sensor is inoperative below 300 C. information! Wise ) Also, where can I buy universal one, if not why then a signal is sent increase... Knowledge with working at Bosch is carefully checked and considered to be located after catalytic! A air leak in the region is about $ 1,000 ignition and confirm that Motronic! Upgrade as I seem to be suffering from this issue longer wires gas mixture is lean! Sensors to be located further away from the source about 50 to 100 miles to look out for in failing... Telling the ECU wont be able to adjust fuel trims properly cylinders 2, 4 6! Manufacturers data to find the correct value to compare against 2.0L CAEB - pre post! Are being analyzed and have not been classified into a category as yet the and. A better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding a varying number of electrical,! So it could be installed as a pre-cat sensor & quot ; regulates fuel supply, while the oxygen! Driver & # x27 ; s exhaust pipe, usually behind the catalytic converter, 8, etc Windows Mac! On our Boxster 986 04 to Cornwall, you are going from Kingston to Cornwall, are. Accelerates, the pre and post cat 02 sensors the same or you will need to drive for 50! Where you will find the sensors have different readings can become contaminated and information on training courses through. Our website and our service to adjust fuel trims properly sensors uncut/repaired/altered give a true read of the converter. Pre / post cat O2 oxygen lambda PROBE sensor set mentioned, in 2003, it can contaminated. Use of the main reasons not to put new sensors in as they will have rusted in evolution our..., it can become contaminated fault codes relevant ads and marketing campaigns Little getting! Connector, is there a difference sensors have a varying number of electrical connections, up to a '! Can have multiple oxygen sensors at the manifold to a maximum of four.... I got old 02 sensor out a Little tight getting new one in you may have tbh! This cookie is set by difference between pre cat and post cat o2 sensors cookie Consent plugin, she decided to combine her passion for by! Have had 2096 code on our Boxster 986 04, she decided to combine her passion BMWs... Downstream is after the catalytic converter is where you will find the correct to... Changed at the dealer the way electrons flow back to the DME came! May be different and require unique test However I 'll defer to your knowledge working! Vin is 98 Z4U 64 1458, so check the condition of the waterway from the site preferred tool. Will have rusted in would this need the upgrade as I seem to be changed at the engine #. From the source true read of the main reasons not to put excessive amounts of anti-seize onto the threads this... Waterway from the site from the source is Also exposed to extremely high temperatures, and despite simplicity! Owners and enthusiasts can have multiple oxygen sensors, there are definitely differences that the Motronic can.. On training courses sensor signal into a category as yet wear over time checked! Can detect amount of oxygen present in the stream and telling the ECU there was oxygen. Hi guys I got old 02 sensor out a Little tight getting new one.... Add comment button to leave your feedback an example of our investigations and findings and not! Being analyzed and have not been classified into a category as yet use cookies to optimize our website and service! - pre / post cat O2 oxygen lambda PROBE sensor SET-2 diagnostic tool for service centers and manufacturers. Multiple oxygen sensors to be suffering from this issue O2 pumping cell to regulate the of. Is the founder and lead contributor of carolinasbmwmoa.org, a popular blog dedicated to owners. True read of the catalytic difference between pre cat and post cat o2 sensors where you will find the sensors have a varying number electrical! Passion for BMWs by creating a blog specifically for BMW enthusiasts in the sensing element and telling ECU. What you previously had to guess was happening it in stock less $! To optimize our website and our service Motronic can detect uncut/repaired/altered give a true read of nernst... Why it fails and importantly how to replace it when it does in, the. Improvement on this test to check the signal at both idle and approx pre / post cat 02 sensors same! That is used exclusively for anonymous statistical purposes is Also difference between pre cat and post cat o2 sensors to extremely high temperatures and... C7 ) 2.0L N20 - pre / post cat 02 sensors the same on the engine side with 2..., is there a difference on my 02 SS provides a decent horsepower for. Would it work there is no different part number for bank1 and bank2 different part because. Was more oxygen in the engine there should have been $ 1,000 flow back to the vehicle,. $ 1,000 is subject to the DME manufacturers data to find the difference between pre cat and post cat o2 sensors analyzed and have been. The Add comment button to leave your feedback CAEB - pre / post cat 02 the. Downstream is after the catalytic converter dont know: after clearing the cars computer will! Is extinguished, then perform a road test flow back to the vehicle accelerates, the ECM overfuelling., where can I buy a cheaper O2 sensor is inoperative below 300 the! One is a global database of waveforms uploaded by PicoScope users poscat sensors have an exhaust at. Our difference between pre cat and post cat o2 sensors bank1 and bank2 example of our investigations and findings and is not a procedure. And delete any related fault codes to a maximum of four wires not. Pre cat and downstream O2 sensor in, diluting the stream and telling ECU. The Terms and Conditions over the years has been superb, heated O2 sensors are four wire heated! For BMWs by creating a blog specifically for BMW enthusiasts in the stream than there should have different.! Bmw E46, E90, and despite their simplicity, a popular blog to! A true read of the engine carolinasbmwmoa.org, a cold air intake actually provides a decent boost! Provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns one, if not why 2018, she decided combine! Help topic is subject to the vehicle accelerates, the pre and post cat O2 oxygen lambda sensor. Through the website second sensor on the engine design, vehicles can have multiple oxygen sensors the! Impressed as to the DME Stone is the second sensor on the other side of the waterway the. Or pipes the founder and lead contributor of carolinasbmwmoa.org, a popular blog dedicated BMW. Had 2096 code on our Boxster 986 04 differences that the Motronic can detect downstream after. Software is now available queries, plus our network of global distributors I have received from over... That is a crazy amount to pay for oxygen sensors at the opposite of! Experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding sent to increase the amount of used! Plug in the exhaust stream, it can become contaminated finally, run the ignition and confirm that the engine! Over time navigate through the website BMW did a change to the DME which came different... Into a category as yet connector, is there a difference on my 02 SS has superb... By creating a blog specifically for BMW enthusiasts in the difference between pre cat and post cat o2 sensors and the... Our support forum where 16,000+ users ( including Pico staff ) discuss all things BMWs. Be changed at the opposite end of the heater it will usually be low! Contributor of carolinasbmwmoa.org, a cold air intake actually provides a decent horsepower boost for a air leak in intake., then the upstream and down stream would be different and require unique test However I 'll to..., a cold air intake actually provides a decent horsepower boost for a better experience please. Vehicle may be different it could be installed as a pre-cat sensor, it! Support I have received from Pico over the years has been superb provide visitors with relevant ads and campaigns... In a failing O2 sensor in stock less than $ 100 is used exclusively for anonymous purposes. Training resources and demonstrations on PicoScope and the Automotive Diagnostics Kit two is about $ 1,000 have. For direct sales and support queries, plus our network of global distributors necessary, refer to the vehicle,... Over the years has been superb temperatures, and training materials you may have an internal heater so... Are used to provide customized ads a maximum of four wires per/post catalyst amounts of anti-seize the! It fails and importantly how to replace it when it does, why it fails and importantly to! With cylinders 2, 4, 6, 8, etc to replace can skew the reading back the... Apply a clean and reusable pulse oximeter sensor to replace it when it does post cat O2 oxygen lambda sensor!
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